Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

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dagbay
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by dagbay » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:04 am

Sertorio: Maybe I am influenced by the fact that I live in the midst of a rather tolerant people, quite pragmatic and not very much attracted by ideologies. We were not (nor are) always like that, and certainly we slip sometimes into intolerance. But those of us who feel inclined towards socialism don't do it because of Marx, Hegel or Kant, but because our feeling of community cannot coexist with deeper forms of inequality. We are moved by a concern, not by adherence to a model, and therefore we don't hate people who think differently.
That may be so (pragmatic, non-ideological, moved to reduce inequality by concern rather than a model). However in most communities there is a contingency of achievers, those who are just starting from a disadvantaged position and wish to ascend and those who want to achieve great things who tend to disturb the equilibrium of the community. Add to them those who are lacking morals enough to take advantage of the generous intent of the community. These will destabilize the equality unless they are shunned by the community. That shunning evolves over time to oppression of any initiative and the human spirit.
Furthermore as you attest your point of view is from within a fairly homogeneous in mindset community. A similar argument was given by Scandinavian countries decades ago and it seemed to work for a while. We can see today that once the community becomes substantially non-uniform that the model community get stressed and moves on to less equality or to the rejection of the exception.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

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lzzrdgrrl
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:10 am

dagbay wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:04 am
Sertorio: Maybe I am influenced by the fact that I live in the midst of a rather tolerant people, quite pragmatic and not very much attracted by ideologies. We were not (nor are) always like that, and certainly we slip sometimes into intolerance. But those of us who feel inclined towards socialism don't do it because of Marx, Hegel or Kant, but because our feeling of community cannot coexist with deeper forms of inequality. We are moved by a concern, not by adherence to a model, and therefore we don't hate people who think differently.
That may be so (pragmatic, non-ideological, moved to reduce inequality by concern rather than a model). However in most communities there is a contingency of achievers, those who are just starting from a disadvantaged position and wish to ascend and those who want to achieve great things who tend to disturb the equilibrium of the community. Add to them those who are lacking morals enough to take advantage of the generous intent of the community. These will destabilize the equality unless they are shunned by the community. That shunning evolves over time to oppression of any initiative and the human spirit.
Furthermore as you attest your point of view is from within a fairly homogeneous in mindset community. A similar argument was given by Scandinavian countries decades ago and it seemed to work for a while. We can see today that once the community becomes substantially non-uniform that the model community get stressed and moves on to less equality or to the rejection of the exception.
As Dagbay describes, many of us live in a more chaotic situation where a common communal ideal is harder to achieve. We assemble our concerns in a package I'm calling a model (for convenience) and in the process it allows us to achieve a degree of social harmony without going to hell and still find a place to sit under our vine and fig tree and not be afraid. Jonathan Haidt says 'Hi'.....'>........
I have a certain notoriety among the lesser gods........

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Sertorio
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by Sertorio » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:03 am

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:10 am
...Jonathan Haidt says 'Hi'...
May "God" throw all moralists in "Hell"...

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