Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

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cassowary
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by cassowary » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:06 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:22 pm
Mr. Perfect wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:35 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:19 am
Trump's only principle is "Do what seems best for Trump."
That is the guiding principle for every politician in Washington.
I don't disagree. The problem is that people in the heartland who desperately want someone, anyone to stick it to elites choose to believe that Trump is some sort of magical exception. He is not.
His anti-illegal immigration policy cannot be good for his business. Hotels quietly hire illegals because they are cheaper. So his is sticking it to the elites, including himself.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by SteveFoerster » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:01 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:06 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:22 pm
Mr. Perfect wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:35 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:19 am
Trump's only principle is "Do what seems best for Trump."
That is the guiding principle for every politician in Washington.
I don't disagree. The problem is that people in the heartland who desperately want someone, anyone to stick it to elites choose to believe that Trump is some sort of magical exception. He is not.
His anti-illegal immigration policy cannot be good for his business. Hotels quietly hire illegals because they are cheaper. So his is sticking it to the elites, including himself.
Which is something that equally damages his competitors. Besides, he's more than making up for it from despots and lobbyists gratuitously renting space in Trump International Hotel in D.C.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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cassowary
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by cassowary » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:54 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:01 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:06 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:22 pm
Mr. Perfect wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:35 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:19 am
Trump's only principle is "Do what seems best for Trump."
That is the guiding principle for every politician in Washington.
I don't disagree. The problem is that people in the heartland who desperately want someone, anyone to stick it to elites choose to believe that Trump is some sort of magical exception. He is not.
His anti-illegal immigration policy cannot be good for his business. Hotels quietly hire illegals because they are cheaper. So his is sticking it to the elites, including himself.
Which is something that equally damages his competitors. Besides, he's more than making up for it from despots and lobbyists gratuitously renting space in Trump International Hotel in D.C.
Which probably accounts for a tiny per cent of his revenue.

His anti-illegals policy squeezes his profit margins as it does all his competitors. I am sure, as a businessman, he would rather everybody prosper together rather than everybody suffers together.

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lzzrdgrrl
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:07 pm

What evil socialists in America want is freedom from competence; where skill, mastery, prowess, efficiency, accomplishment and expertise do not matter much in human affairs and do not disturb a desired easeful life. For who or how many does not enter in the question. They are implicitly hostile to value systems which imply hierarchies and are driven by resentment, not compassion, which means they are happier with everybody having equal parts of nothing than some having more than others. Always. 'Democracy' and 'Revolution' are masks or mere buzzwords to fill in where mouth noises are expected to be made......'>.......
I have a certain notoriety among the lesser gods........

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Milo
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by Milo » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:57 pm

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:07 pm
What evil socialists in America want is freedom from competence; where skill, mastery, prowess, efficiency, accomplishment and expertise do not matter much in human affairs and do not disturb a desired easeful life. For who or how many does not enter in the question. They are implicitly hostile to value systems which imply hierarchies and are driven by resentment, not compassion, which means they are happier with everybody having equal parts of nothing than some having more than others. Always. 'Democracy' and 'Revolution' are masks or mere buzzwords to fill in where mouth noises are expected to be made......'>.......
I believe you refer to Critical Studies, one of the most pernicious influences I have ever encountered.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory

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Sertorio
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by Sertorio » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:40 am

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:07 pm
What evil socialists in America want is freedom from competence; where skill, mastery, prowess, efficiency, accomplishment and expertise do not matter much in human affairs and do not disturb a desired easeful life. For who or how many does not enter in the question. They are implicitly hostile to value systems which imply hierarchies and are driven by resentment, not compassion, which means they are happier with everybody having equal parts of nothing than some having more than others. Always. 'Democracy' and 'Revolution' are masks or mere buzzwords to fill in where mouth noises are expected to be made......'>.......
What a silly text. One would expect deeper reasonings from an intelligent person... But I suppose far too many Americans have never learned to use their brains properly...

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Sertorio
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by Sertorio » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:46 am

Milo wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:57 pm
lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:07 pm
What evil socialists in America want is freedom from competence; where skill, mastery, prowess, efficiency, accomplishment and expertise do not matter much in human affairs and do not disturb a desired easeful life. For who or how many does not enter in the question. They are implicitly hostile to value systems which imply hierarchies and are driven by resentment, not compassion, which means they are happier with everybody having equal parts of nothing than some having more than others. Always. 'Democracy' and 'Revolution' are masks or mere buzzwords to fill in where mouth noises are expected to be made......'>.......
I believe you refer to Critical Studies, one of the most pernicious influences I have ever encountered.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory
Do you mean this Critical Theory?
Critical theory (German: Kritische Theorie) was first defined by Max Horkheimer of the Frankfurt School of sociology in his 1937 essay Traditional and Critical Theory: Critical Theory is a social theory oriented toward critiquing and changing society as a whole, in contrast to traditional theory oriented only to understanding or explaining it. Horkheimer wanted to distinguish critical theory as a radical, emancipatory form of Marxian theory, critiquing both the model of science put forward by logical positivism and what he and his colleagues saw as the covert positivism and authoritarianism of orthodox Marxism and Communism. He described a theory as critical insofar as it seeks "to liberate human beings from the circumstances that enslave them". Critical theory involves a normative dimension, either through criticizing society from some general theory of values, norms, or "oughts", or through criticizing it in terms of its own espoused values.

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lzzrdgrrl
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:58 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:40 am
lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:07 pm
What evil socialists in America want is freedom from competence; where skill, mastery, prowess, efficiency, accomplishment and expertise do not matter much in human affairs and do not disturb a desired easeful life. For who or how many does not enter in the question. They are implicitly hostile to value systems which imply hierarchies and are driven by resentment, not compassion, which means they are happier with everybody having equal parts of nothing than some having more than others. Always. 'Democracy' and 'Revolution' are masks or mere buzzwords to fill in where mouth noises are expected to be made......'>.......
What a silly text. One would expect deeper reasonings from an intelligent person... But I suppose far too many Americans have never learned to use their brains properly...
Well, your cerebral cortex devises models from which coherent thoughts are drawn. The quality of the model is compromised if it's too simplistic or merely confirms forgone conclusions. Socialism, going back through Marx, Hegel and Kant looks like Calvinism minus the transcendent, metaphysical stuff. Kantian idealism is the basis of an error, humans aren't basically rational and reason is insufficient for determining the good. And humans live in a world of choices and decisions, between potential and outcome; not objects, forces and symmetries......

If I am silly, lots of people are silly and we don't do a serious job with the reason we have. The model of socialism given us yields towards tribal animosity. We plug our anger, resentment, frustration and humiliation into the formula and nothing written in the manual corrects for this. We have a problem when we see another person. We often assume that's just us in a different body. Creatures that don't act like us in a different body are beyond the ken. Compromise and negotiation doesn't come naturally, not when we form our coalitions and tribal affiliations in response. We dismiss our fealty to our particular tribe and clan by calling it an economic or political issue as if that encompasses all of it, and not eliding the psychological part......
I have a certain notoriety among the lesser gods........

neverfail
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by neverfail » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:14 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:06 pm

His anti-illegal immigration policy cannot be good for his business. Hotels quietly hire illegals because they are cheaper. So his is sticking it to the elites, including himself.
I thought that you were a Trump fan Cass.

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Sertorio
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Re: Evil Socialists in America wants revolution, not democracy

Post by Sertorio » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:54 am

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:58 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:40 am
lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:07 pm
What evil socialists in America want is freedom from competence; where skill, mastery, prowess, efficiency, accomplishment and expertise do not matter much in human affairs and do not disturb a desired easeful life. For who or how many does not enter in the question. They are implicitly hostile to value systems which imply hierarchies and are driven by resentment, not compassion, which means they are happier with everybody having equal parts of nothing than some having more than others. Always. 'Democracy' and 'Revolution' are masks or mere buzzwords to fill in where mouth noises are expected to be made......'>.......
What a silly text. One would expect deeper reasonings from an intelligent person... But I suppose far too many Americans have never learned to use their brains properly...
Well, your cerebral cortex devises models from which coherent thoughts are drawn. The quality of the model is compromised if it's too simplistic or merely confirms forgone conclusions. Socialism, going back through Marx, Hegel and Kant looks like Calvinism minus the transcendent, metaphysical stuff. Kantian idealism is the basis of an error, humans aren't basically rational and reason is insufficient for determining the good. And humans live in a world of choices and decisions, between potential and outcome; not objects, forces and symmetries......

If I am silly, lots of people are silly and we don't do a serious job with the reason we have. The model of socialism given us yields towards tribal animosity. We plug our anger, resentment, frustration and humiliation into the formula and nothing written in the manual corrects for this. We have a problem when we see another person. We often assume that's just us in a different body. Creatures that don't act like us in a different body are beyond the ken. Compromise and negotiation doesn't come naturally, not when we form our coalitions and tribal affiliations in response. We dismiss our fealty to our particular tribe and clan by calling it an economic or political issue as if that encompasses all of it, and not eliding the psychological part......
Maybe I am influenced by the fact that I live in the midst of a rather tolerant people, quite pragmatic and not very much attracted by ideologies. We were not (nor are) always like that, and certainly we slip sometimes into intolerance. But those of us who feel inclined towards socialism don't do it because of Marx, Hegel or Kant, but because our feeling of community cannot coexist with deeper forms of inequality. We are moved by a concern, not by adherence to a model, and therefore we don't hate people who think differently.

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