Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

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neverfail
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Re: Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

Post by neverfail » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:08 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:58 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:39 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 am
Hundreds of million of people all over the world trust Russia and Putin more than they trust the US.
Citation needed.
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 am
Which is quite understandable. Who can trust a country which denounces every treaty it has ever signed?
And yet it's Russian policymakers, not U.S. ones, who have used gas supplies to blackmail Europeans into accepting Putin's position on Ukraine. They'd be fools not to diversify their supply.
You couldn't find a more reliable source than a 2014 article in an Ukainian newspaper?... And do you really think that Europe is being blackmailed by Russia? Blackmailed into doing what?...
More reliable? Because the source is Ukrainian, does that mean in this case that the report is necessarily untruthful?

Europe is still nothing like as dependent on supplies of Russian gas as is the Ukraine. So it pays the Russians for now to be nice to Europe - to lure the Europeans into greater dependency on Russian gas. The blackmail, with the example of Russia's treatment of Ukraine as a forewarning of things to come, will come later when they are more confident that Russia holds Europe in its talons.

Luckily, the Europeans seem to be awake to Russia's ploy and are now striving to cut down their Russia dependence by diversifying sources of supply.

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Sertorio
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Re: Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

Post by Sertorio » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:58 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:08 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:58 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:39 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 am
Hundreds of million of people all over the world trust Russia and Putin more than they trust the US.
Citation needed.
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 am
Which is quite understandable. Who can trust a country which denounces every treaty it has ever signed?
And yet it's Russian policymakers, not U.S. ones, who have used gas supplies to blackmail Europeans into accepting Putin's position on Ukraine. They'd be fools not to diversify their supply.
You couldn't find a more reliable source than a 2014 article in an Ukainian newspaper?... And do you really think that Europe is being blackmailed by Russia? Blackmailed into doing what?...
More reliable? Because the source is Ukrainian, does that mean in this case that the report is necessarily untruthful?

Europe is still nothing like as dependent on supplies of Russian gas as is the Ukraine. So it pays the Russians for now to be nice to Europe - to lure the Europeans into greater dependency on Russian gas. The blackmail, with the example of Russia's treatment of Ukraine as a forewarning of things to come, will come later when they are more confident that Russia holds Europe in its talons.

Luckily, the Europeans seem to be awake to Russia's ploy and are now striving to cut down their Russia dependence by diversifying sources of supply.
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I think that dependence is mutual, so neither side would have any interest in trying to screw the other one. And I have nothing against Europe diversifying its sources of supply. As long as it isn't by means of expensive US LPG... And the US is at least as unreliable as Russia, as we have seen in the manner the US denounces treaty after treaty...

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

Post by SteveFoerster » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:24 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:58 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:08 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:58 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:39 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 am
Hundreds of million of people all over the world trust Russia and Putin more than they trust the US.
Citation needed.
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 am
Which is quite understandable. Who can trust a country which denounces every treaty it has ever signed?
And yet it's Russian policymakers, not U.S. ones, who have used gas supplies to blackmail Europeans into accepting Putin's position on Ukraine. They'd be fools not to diversify their supply.
You couldn't find a more reliable source than a 2014 article in an Ukainian newspaper?... And do you really think that Europe is being blackmailed by Russia? Blackmailed into doing what?...
More reliable? Because the source is Ukrainian, does that mean in this case that the report is necessarily untruthful?

Europe is still nothing like as dependent on supplies of Russian gas as is the Ukraine. So it pays the Russians for now to be nice to Europe - to lure the Europeans into greater dependency on Russian gas. The blackmail, with the example of Russia's treatment of Ukraine as a forewarning of things to come, will come later when they are more confident that Russia holds Europe in its talons.

Luckily, the Europeans seem to be awake to Russia's ploy and are now striving to cut down their Russia dependence by diversifying sources of supply.
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I think that dependence is mutual, so neither side would have any interest in trying to screw the other one. And I have nothing against Europe diversifying its sources of supply. As long as it isn't by means of expensive US LPG... And the US is at least as unreliable as Russia, as we have seen in the manner the US denounces treaty after treaty...
And yet people with actual money to spend and who don't have a perpetual grievance again all things American prefer them to dealing with Russia.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Sertorio
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Re: Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

Post by Sertorio » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:47 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:24 am
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:58 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:08 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:58 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:39 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 am
Hundreds of million of people all over the world trust Russia and Putin more than they trust the US.
Citation needed.
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 am
Which is quite understandable. Who can trust a country which denounces every treaty it has ever signed?
And yet it's Russian policymakers, not U.S. ones, who have used gas supplies to blackmail Europeans into accepting Putin's position on Ukraine. They'd be fools not to diversify their supply.
You couldn't find a more reliable source than a 2014 article in an Ukainian newspaper?... And do you really think that Europe is being blackmailed by Russia? Blackmailed into doing what?...
More reliable? Because the source is Ukrainian, does that mean in this case that the report is necessarily untruthful?

Europe is still nothing like as dependent on supplies of Russian gas as is the Ukraine. So it pays the Russians for now to be nice to Europe - to lure the Europeans into greater dependency on Russian gas. The blackmail, with the example of Russia's treatment of Ukraine as a forewarning of things to come, will come later when they are more confident that Russia holds Europe in its talons.

Luckily, the Europeans seem to be awake to Russia's ploy and are now striving to cut down their Russia dependence by diversifying sources of supply.
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I think that dependence is mutual, so neither side would have any interest in trying to screw the other one. And I have nothing against Europe diversifying its sources of supply. As long as it isn't by means of expensive US LPG... And the US is at least as unreliable as Russia, as we have seen in the manner the US denounces treaty after treaty...
And yet people with actual money to spend and who don't have a perpetual grievance again all things American prefer them to dealing with Russia.
Maybe Americans are good at making money. But so are the Mexican and Colombian drug cartels...

neverfail
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Europe's imports of US LNG are political, not economic.

Post by neverfail » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:17 pm

I have heard that US LPG when delivered to Europe is more expensive; so I can only conclude that the decision by 3 or 4 European states south of the Baltic Sea to import the stuff was based on diplomatic/political grounds; not any quest for economic advantage.

As I see it, buying American has three advantages for these countries:

1. It sends a clear signal to Putin and his gangsters to the effect that if you try any funny business we can take our business elsewhere.

2. the sales help mitigate the Trump whinge about "unfair trading practices" by US overseas trading partners.

3. For reason #2 it gives Trump and the US a renewed interest in maintaining the NATO alliance.

Of course these European states will only buy as much US gas as is necessary to achieve these goals and no more than that needed minimum. They would be silly to send themselves broke buying the high cost US product instead of importing supplies of cheaper LNG from third country suppliers like Algeria.

The idea that the US is currently "flooding" Europe with LNG or is ever likely to do so is plain ludicrous.
..................................................................................................................................

P.S. Sertorio: just out of idle curiosity, would you know where Portugal imports its natural gas from?

Jim the Moron
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Re: Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

Post by Jim the Moron » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:39 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:22 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:03 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:48 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:15 am
It isn't just oil. American LNG is coming to Europe.

"Berlin woos US in Europe gas battle"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/ ... gas-battle

"Germany and the US share an interest in secure and dependable energy supplies."
Logical... Europe has plenty of oil and gas just accross the eastern border, but it would prefer to import them from the US, because the US is more reliable!... Just ask the Iranians (or the Venezuelans) how reliable the US is...
Could it be that the Europeans prefer to have choices? Seems reasonable to me . . .
We have choices without any need for US oil or gas. Portugal gets its natural gas from Algeria.
"Portugal gets its natural gas from Algeria."

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Sertorio
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Re: Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

Post by Sertorio » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:20 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:39 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:22 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:03 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:48 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:15 am
It isn't just oil. American LNG is coming to Europe.

"Berlin woos US in Europe gas battle"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/ ... gas-battle

"Germany and the US share an interest in secure and dependable energy supplies."
Logical... Europe has plenty of oil and gas just accross the eastern border, but it would prefer to import them from the US, because the US is more reliable!... Just ask the Iranians (or the Venezuelans) how reliable the US is...
Could it be that the Europeans prefer to have choices? Seems reasonable to me . . .
We have choices without any need for US oil or gas. Portugal gets its natural gas from Algeria.
"Portugal gets its natural gas from Algeria."
That's right. From Algeria. And not from the US, although we have LPG port facilities in the harbour of Sines, the closest European deep water harbour to the US...

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Sertorio
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Re: Europe's imports of US LNG are political, not economic.

Post by Sertorio » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:26 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:17 pm

1. It sends a clear signal to Putin and his gangsters to the effect that if you try any funny business we can take our business elsewhere.
I find it a bit disturbing when someone refers in this manner to politicians one doesn't like. Maybe there are gangsters in Russia who try to get close to Putin, but do you have any evidence of that? And let's not forget that it is well known that mobsters have been very close to several US Presidents. Including Kennedy.

If only we could learn to discuss issues without recourse to insults...

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Europe's imports of US LNG are political, not economic.

Post by SteveFoerster » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:57 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:26 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:17 pm

1. It sends a clear signal to Putin and his gangsters to the effect that if you try any funny business we can take our business elsewhere.
I find it a bit disturbing when someone refers in this manner to politicians one doesn't like. Maybe there are gangsters in Russia who try to get close to Putin, but do you have any evidence of that? And let's not forget that it is well known that mobsters have been very close to several US Presidents. Including Kennedy.

If only we could learn to discuss issues without recourse to insults...
Kennedy was president of the U.S. 56 years ago. Putin is president of Russia right now.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

neverfail
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Europe's imports of US LNG are political, not economic.

Post by neverfail » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:00 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:57 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:26 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:17 pm

1. It sends a clear signal to Putin and his gangsters to the effect that if you try any funny business we can take our business elsewhere.
I find it a bit disturbing when someone refers in this manner to politicians one doesn't like. Maybe there are gangsters in Russia who try to get close to Putin, but do you have any evidence of that? And let's not forget that it is well known that mobsters have been very close to several US Presidents. Including Kennedy.

If only we could learn to discuss issues without recourse to insults...
Kennedy was president of the U.S. 56 years ago. Putin is president of Russia right now.
Gangsters took over the Russian Federation after the USSR broke up. I believe that anyone who seriously wants to be in politics there cannot avoid being beholden to crime figures in some way.

P.S. I am sure that in private Vlad. Putin would probably be a charming, likeable fellow. its his stinking political ambitions and methods that I dislike.

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