Wild Fires in Australia

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Sertorio
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Wild Fires in Australia

Post by Sertorio » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:58 am

Neverfail,

This is specially for your attention.

Two years ago, during the big forest fires in Portugal, I spent some time thinking of better ways to fight such major fires. I came to some intereting conclusions, but I never submitted them to the Portuguese Civil Defense Authority because the fire problem seemed to get under control in Portugal. Now, the big fires in Australia led me to think about this again, but I have no idea who might be the right entity in Australia to whom my ideas might be presented. I am going to outline them below and I will leave to you deciding whether there is enough merit in such ideas to have them being brought to the attention of the proper authorities.

1. The major problems with fighting very large bush fires are the difficulty to bring enough water to fight them, and the fact that much of the water dropped from airplanes never reaches the flames, evaporating before it reaches the ground. Besides, you need special airplanes for fire fighting, which cannot be used for anything else, and thus are expensive to use.

2. My basic idea would be carrying water for fire fighting in 1,000 liter (just an idea, could be bigger, if technically possible) plastic balloons, which could be carried by any common cargo plane with a rear door, and dropped on the fire front. Advantages:

i) Much larger quantities of water could be brought to the fires;
ii) Any cargo plano would do the job;
iii) Water wouldn't evaporate after dropping, because of being contained in balloons, and would be 100% used in the fire fighting; the balloons would burst on impact with the ground;
iv) Airplanes could drop the water from a higher altitude, which would make it safer for them;
v) No need to find water bodies in the neighbourhood of the fires, to recharge the fire fighting aircraft.

3. Requirements:

i) Having large quantities of the plastic balloons (empty) stored in various airfields around the country.
ii) Having automated balloon water filling installations in those airfields, capable of handling the quantity of balloons needed to provide a steady stream towards the fire fronts.

I'm sure Australia has enough ordinary cargo planes to make sure that the water dropped on the fires would extinguish them. The whole thing would be low cost.

Neverfail,

If you think that these ideas have any merit, you are free to bring them to the attention of the proper authorities in Australia. In case of being adopted, I want nothing. Only the satisfaction of having contributed to fight a major problem.

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armchair_pundit
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Re: Wild Fires in Australia

Post by armchair_pundit » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:16 pm



http://saintindustries.com/pcads/


Looks like they release them higher than your idea. It looks like they break open soon after being dropped. And as you postulated, the drift and evaporation has to cause a lot of waste. Need to drop them lower!

You should correspond with the company!

https://newatlas.com/the-precision-cont ... cads/7635/
https://www.tracplus.com/blog/evolution ... efighting/

neverfail
Posts: 4800
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Location: Singapore

Re: Wild Fires in Australia

Post by neverfail » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:08 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:58 am
Neverfail,

This is specially for your attention.

Two years ago, during the big forest fires in Portugal, I spent some time thinking of better ways to fight such major fires. I came to some intereting conclusions, but I never submitted them to the Portuguese Civil Defense Authority because the fire problem seemed to get under control in Portugal. Now, the big fires in Australia led me to think about this again, but I have no idea who might be the right entity in Australia to whom my ideas might be presented. I am going to outline them below and I will leave to you deciding whether there is enough merit in such ideas to have them being brought to the attention of the proper authorities.

1. The major problems with fighting very large bush fires are the difficulty to bring enough water to fight them, and the fact that much of the water dropped from airplanes never reaches the flames, evaporating before it reaches the ground. Besides, you need special airplanes for fire fighting, which cannot be used for anything else, and thus are expensive to use.

2. My basic idea would be carrying water for fire fighting in 1,000 liter (just an idea, could be bigger, if technically possible) plastic balloons, which could be carried by any common cargo plane with a rear door, and dropped on the fire front. Advantages:

i) Much larger quantities of water could be brought to the fires;
ii) Any cargo plano would do the job;
iii) Water wouldn't evaporate after dropping, because of being contained in balloons, and would be 100% used in the fire fighting; the balloons would burst on impact with the ground;
iv) Airplanes could drop the water from a higher altitude, which would make it safer for them;
v) No need to find water bodies in the neighbourhood of the fires, to recharge the fire fighting aircraft.

3. Requirements:

i) Having large quantities of the plastic balloons (empty) stored in various airfields around the country.
ii) Having automated balloon water filling installations in those airfields, capable of handling the quantity of balloons needed to provide a steady stream towards the fire fronts.

I'm sure Australia has enough ordinary cargo planes to make sure that the water dropped on the fires would extinguish them. The whole thing would be low cost.

Neverfail,

If you think that these ideas have any merit, you are free to bring them to the attention of the proper authorities in Australia. In case of being adopted, I want nothing. Only the satisfaction of having contributed to fight a major problem.
Yes, though I am no expert in fire fighting your proposal could indeed have merit. In this country bushfire fighting is organised on a state-by-state basis and many of our rural firefighters are volunteers. If I can ever work out which authority (or level of authority) to pass your idea on to Sertorio I shall.

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Milo
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Re: Wild Fires in Australia

Post by Milo » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:41 am

Fires are part of nature and it is not always a good idea to fight them. I don't know about this case in particular.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Wild Fires in Australia

Post by Jim the Moron » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:55 am

Milo wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:41 am
Fires are part of nature and it is not always a good idea to fight them. I don't know about this case in particular.
Yes, in many types of mature forest cover, buildup of duff can exacerbate the spread of wildfires. Controlled burns in these ecosystems are often helpful. And sometimes letting them burn out is a good policy.

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Doc
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Re: Wild Fires in Australia

Post by Doc » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:02 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:55 am
Milo wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:41 am
Fires are part of nature and it is not always a good idea to fight them. I don't know about this case in particular.
Yes, in many types of mature forest cover, buildup of duff can exacerbate the spread of wildfires. Controlled burns in these ecosystems are often helpful. And sometimes letting them burn out is a good policy.
After the Yellowstone fire of several years ago the forest really bloomed for the various species of the park. Seems when you let mother nature do her thing it can work out better. Especially WRT pronouns IE "Xir xi zir" :D
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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cassowary
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Wild Fires in Australia

Post by cassowary » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:10 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:58 am
Neverfail,

This is specially for your attention.

Two years ago, during the big forest fires in Portugal, I spent some time thinking of better ways to fight such major fires. I came to some intereting conclusions, but I never submitted them to the Portuguese Civil Defense Authority because the fire problem seemed to get under control in Portugal. Now, the big fires in Australia led me to think about this again, but I have no idea who might be the right entity in Australia to whom my ideas might be presented. I am going to outline them below and I will leave to you deciding whether there is enough merit in such ideas to have them being brought to the attention of the proper authorities.

1. The major problems with fighting very large bush fires are the difficulty to bring enough water to fight them, and the fact that much of the water dropped from airplanes never reaches the flames, evaporating before it reaches the ground. Besides, you need special airplanes for fire fighting, which cannot be used for anything else, and thus are expensive to use.

2. My basic idea would be carrying water for fire fighting in 1,000 liter (just an idea, could be bigger, if technically possible) plastic balloons, which could be carried by any common cargo plane with a rear door, and dropped on the fire front. Advantages:

i) Much larger quantities of water could be brought to the fires;
ii) Any cargo plano would do the job;
iii) Water wouldn't evaporate after dropping, because of being contained in balloons, and would be 100% used in the fire fighting; the balloons would burst on impact with the ground;
iv) Airplanes could drop the water from a higher altitude, which would make it safer for them;
v) No need to find water bodies in the neighbourhood of the fires, to recharge the fire fighting aircraft.

3. Requirements:

i) Having large quantities of the plastic balloons (empty) stored in various airfields around the country.
ii) Having automated balloon water filling installations in those airfields, capable of handling the quantity of balloons needed to provide a steady stream towards the fire fronts.

I'm sure Australia has enough ordinary cargo planes to make sure that the water dropped on the fires would extinguish them. The whole thing would be low cost.

Neverfail,

If you think that these ideas have any merit, you are free to bring them to the attention of the proper authorities in Australia. In case of being adopted, I want nothing. Only the satisfaction of having contributed to fight a major problem.
Sounds like a good idea, Sertorio. Very clever.
The Imp :D

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cassowary
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Re: Wild Fires in Australia

Post by cassowary » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:14 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:41 am
Fires are part of nature and it is not always a good idea to fight them. I don't know about this case in particular.
That's true too. Some plants need fire to regenerate.
The Imp :D

neverfail
Posts: 4800
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Wild Fires in Australia

Post by neverfail » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:05 am

cassowary wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:14 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:41 am
Fires are part of nature and it is not always a good idea to fight them. I don't know about this case in particular.
That's true too. Some plants need fire to regenerate.
Very true Cassowary. But people who lose everything when their homes get burned out often find it hard to "regenerate".

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cassowary
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Re: Wild Fires in Australia

Post by cassowary » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:17 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:05 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:14 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:41 am
Fires are part of nature and it is not always a good idea to fight them. I don't know about this case in particular.
That's true too. Some plants need fire to regenerate.
Very true Cassowary. But people who lose everything when their homes get burned out often find it hard to "regenerate".
I have faith in the human spirit to overcome adversity with the help of God.
The Imp :D

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