June 13th Oil tanker attacks in the Gulf

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neverfail
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Re: I reserve judgement!

Post by neverfail » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:02 pm

Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:16 am
Clearly the mine being visible to an aircraft in a video indicates it is above the water line. How visible to the crew would a mine just above the water line be?
If you want to sink a ship with a limpet mine the place to locate it is at or below the waterline: not high up on the ship's hull like the purported mine depicted in the photo. That is what a frogman/agent of the French secret service did to the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior berthed in Auckland harbour, New Zealand, in 1986 during the anti-French nuclear tests campaign of that year.

I refuse to believe that any agency acting on behalf of the Iran government could be so stumble-bum incompetent.

(Nevertheless, having stated the above: I do not entirely rule out the possibility that the Iran government might have had a hand in the matter. The French secret service had the reputation for being highly professional but going by how swiftly the Rainbow Warrior attack spooks were subsequently identified and some of them apprehended by the NZ authorities, I do not entirely rule out the possibility either. I just do not believe it at present, based upon what might well turn out to be doctored up video; evidence fabricated to sustain official lies presently being emitted by an untrustworthy US government.)
Last edited by neverfail on Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Doc
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Re: Four possible culprits

Post by Doc » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:11 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:02 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:16 am
Clearly the mine being visible to an aircraft in a video indicates it is above the water line. How visible to the crew would a mine just above the water line be?
If you want to sink a ship with a limpet mine the place to locate it is at or below the waterline: not high up on the ship's hull like the purported mine depicted in the photo. That is what a frogman/agent of the French secret service did to the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior berthed in Auckland harbour, New Zealand, in 1986 during the anti-French nuclear tests campaign of that year.

I refuse to believe that any agency acting on behalf of the Iran government could be so stumble-bum incompetent.
SO you are saying that the Iranian government should be believed instead of US intel services?
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Four possible culprits

Post by neverfail » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:17 pm

Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:11 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:02 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:16 am
Clearly the mine being visible to an aircraft in a video indicates it is above the water line. How visible to the crew would a mine just above the water line be?
If you want to sink a ship with a limpet mine the place to locate it is at or below the waterline: not high up on the ship's hull like the purported mine depicted in the photo. That is what a frogman/agent of the French secret service did to the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior berthed in Auckland harbour, New Zealand, in 1986 during the anti-French nuclear tests campaign of that year.

I refuse to believe that any agency acting on behalf of the Iran government could be so stumble-bum incompetent.
SO you are saying that the Iranian government should be believed instead of US intel services?
No, I am not! It might be telling lies in the matter but then again it might not. I an saying that the purported evidence is unconvincing.

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Doc
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Re: Four possible culprits

Post by Doc » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:34 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:17 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:11 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:02 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:16 am
Clearly the mine being visible to an aircraft in a video indicates it is above the water line. How visible to the crew would a mine just above the water line be?
If you want to sink a ship with a limpet mine the place to locate it is at or below the waterline: not high up on the ship's hull like the purported mine depicted in the photo. That is what a frogman/agent of the French secret service did to the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior berthed in Auckland harbour, New Zealand, in 1986 during the anti-French nuclear tests campaign of that year.

I refuse to believe that any agency acting on behalf of the Iran government could be so stumble-bum incompetent.
SO you are saying that the Iranian government should be believed instead of US intel services?
No, I am not! It might be telling lies in the matter but then again it might not. I an saying that the purported evidence is unconvincing.
So why did the Iranians kidnap the crew of the one tanker?
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Location: Singapore

Re: Four possible culprits

Post by neverfail » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:20 pm

Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:34 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:17 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:11 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:02 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:16 am
Clearly the mine being visible to an aircraft in a video indicates it is above the water line. How visible to the crew would a mine just above the water line be?
If you want to sink a ship with a limpet mine the place to locate it is at or below the waterline: not high up on the ship's hull like the purported mine depicted in the photo. That is what a frogman/agent of the French secret service did to the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior berthed in Auckland harbour, New Zealand, in 1986 during the anti-French nuclear tests campaign of that year.

I refuse to believe that any agency acting on behalf of the Iran government could be so stumble-bum incompetent.
SO you are saying that the Iranian government should be believed instead of US intel services?
No, I am not! It might be telling lies in the matter but then again it might not. I an saying that the purported evidence is unconvincing.
So why did the Iranians kidnap the crew of the one tanker?
"Kidnap? Before I responded to this post I Googled the question Did the Iranians "kidnap" the crew of an oil tanker?" While I found reference to other tanker crew kidnaps elsewhere in the world, I did not find a single one to any Iranian kidnap. Are you sure that you are not the dupe of anti-Iranian official lies?

neverfail
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Re: Backtracking...

Post by neverfail » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:40 pm

Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:49 am
Apparently these mines were put on the ships in port. The mines exploded in international waters where the Iranians tried to remove an unexplored mine. Purportedly the ship all dock in Iranian ports.
What for? The only reason why any oil tanker would want to dock at an Iranian port would be in order to load up with oil. Since Iran is currently subject to US sanctions it means that only the tanker ships of sanctions busting states like the PRC would normally enter an Iranian oil port. None of these to my knowledge has been attacked.

Instead, the ships were empty tankers of sanctions observing nations like Japan that were bound for ports on the Arabic side of the Gulf to load up there. It makes no sense for any such ships to put in to an Iranian port first then leaving empty to then visit an oil loading terminal on the other side of the Gulf.

It might well be the Iranians damaging the vessels (even sinking some) for the sake of sending out a very rude diplomatic "message" to the effect "we have the means to cut off the World's main seaborne supply of oil if you push us too far" It is hard to see how the Iranians could plant limpet mines on ships hulls so far out to sea undetected however.

Which is why I still question the credibility of such allegations.

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Milo
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Re: Backtracking...

Post by Milo » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:06 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:40 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:49 am
Apparently these mines were put on the ships in port. The mines exploded in international waters where the Iranians tried to remove an unexplored mine. Purportedly the ship all dock in Iranian ports.
What for? The only reason why any oil tanker would want to dock at an Iranian port would be in order to load up with oil. Since Iran is currently subject to US sanctions it means that only the tanker ships of sanctions busting states like the PRC would normally enter an Iranian oil port. None of these to my knowledge has been attacked.

Instead, the ships were empty tankers of sanctions observing nations like Japan that were bound for ports on the Arabic side of the Gulf to load up there. It makes no sense for any such ships to put in to an Iranian port first then leaving empty to then visit an oil loading terminal on the other side of the Gulf.

It might well be the Iranians damaging the vessels (even sinking some) for the sake of sending out a very rude diplomatic "message" to the effect "we have the means to cut off the World's main seaborne supply of oil if you push us too far" It is hard to see how the Iranians could plant limpet mines on ships hulls so far out to sea undetected however.

Which is why I still question the credibility of such allegations.
Frankly this incident only makes sense if it was a opp designed to increase American involvement in the region.

But one should not assume that those who give the orders know what they are doing.

It just occurred to me now that good equipment combined with burlesque ineptitude spells classic Saudi Arabia!

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Doc
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Re: Four possible culprits

Post by Doc » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:25 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:20 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:34 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:17 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:11 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:02 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:16 am
Clearly the mine being visible to an aircraft in a video indicates it is above the water line. How visible to the crew would a mine just above the water line be?
If you want to sink a ship with a limpet mine the place to locate it is at or below the waterline: not high up on the ship's hull like the purported mine depicted in the photo. That is what a frogman/agent of the French secret service did to the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior berthed in Auckland harbour, New Zealand, in 1986 during the anti-French nuclear tests campaign of that year.

I refuse to believe that any agency acting on behalf of the Iran government could be so stumble-bum incompetent.
SO you are saying that the Iranian government should be believed instead of US intel services?
No, I am not! It might be telling lies in the matter but then again it might not. I an saying that the purported evidence is unconvincing.
So why did the Iranians kidnap the crew of the one tanker?
"Kidnap? Before I responded to this post I Googled the question Did the Iranians "kidnap" the crew of an oil tanker?" While I found reference to other tanker crew kidnaps elsewhere in the world, I did not find a single one to any Iranian kidnap. Are you sure that you are not the dupe of anti-Iranian official lies?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9296613/g ... rts-claim/

Though I will say that trusting the intel agencies is problematic.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06- ... hn-brennan
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: June 13th Oil tanker attacks in the Gulf

Post by neverfail » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:38 pm

It is published by the News Group Newspapers division of News UK, itself a wholly owned subsidiary of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. Since The Sun on Sunday was launched in February 2012, the paper has been a seven-day operation. ... The average circulation for The Sun on Sunday in January 2019 was 1,178,687.
The Sun (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun_(United_Kingdom)
Nor can you rely on any of Rupert Murdoch's publications for absolute truthfulness.

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Doc
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Re: June 13th Oil tanker attacks in the Gulf

Post by Doc » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:16 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:38 pm
It is published by the News Group Newspapers division of News UK, itself a wholly owned subsidiary of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. Since The Sun on Sunday was launched in February 2012, the paper has been a seven-day operation. ... The average circulation for The Sun on Sunday in January 2019 was 1,178,687.
The Sun (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun_(United_Kingdom)
Nor can you rely on any of Rupert Murdoch's publications for absolute truthfulness.
I don't know of any news outlet that can be relied on for absolute truthulness. though I know of many that I can rely on for absolute liefulness.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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