The Xi Silk Road is here to stay

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Re: The Xi Silk Road is here to stay

Post by Milo » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:41 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:17 am
Milo wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:24 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:56 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:50 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:29 pm
George H Bush missed a golden opportunity after TianAnMen incident. He should have pressured China into becoming a democracy. The Chinese then were receptive to the idea.
What, exactly, do you think he could have done?
Trade sanctions would have sunk the CCP. China was weak at that time. Now China has grown to an 800-pound gorilla. The CCP was discredited at that time with Tiananmen incident on their minds. Chinese saw America as a role model. Remember the Goddes of Democracy statue erected in the square?
Trade sanctions, against a regime that starved millions out of pure stubborn pride? I don't think so. China would have borne a very high price to stay a tyranny, as they do now.

You're wrong about what democracy is Cass and wrong about who is strong too. China is conning a lot of people and you're one of them.
I agree with you that the CCP would have paid any price to remain in control. But is that party being selfish by so doing?

Contributors to this website, not least of all our esteemed Cassowary, cling to the myth that if you remove tyranny from any given foreign country then automatically (it goes without saying) the country becomes a democracy (then we all live happily ever after?). In light of all of the ex-tyrannies we have observed from afar in recent times that did not do so, I humbly suggest that this belief is nought but romantic, self-indulgent twaddle.

Though some of you might have to leave your comfort zones, think outside the box to do this; I challenge you to contemplate that the choice for some may not be between tyranny and multi-party democracy but between tyranny and utter socio-economic breakdown and violent political disorder.

The way that China, a multi-ethnic imperial state, has been built up over the centuries by a succession of dynasties I judge that it can only be governed in much the way that it currently is. In that regard the CCP is not being selfish but acting responsibly as the latest of a long line of stewards over this ancient land's destiny.

No Milo. I don't get the impression that China is conning anyone. The difference is that China now has strong leadership and a clear policy direction. Contrast this with the ill led, vacillating, floundering, clueless West.

China is on the rise whilst the West is on the wane. It is as simple as that. Get used to it!
My general belief is that all societies evolve into democracies but at drastically different rates and it can take a bit of autocracy to get there.

I agree that the current, corporatist CCP is a decent steward of China and I do believe that, given some time, democracy will come to China.

The way China is conning everyone is by gerrymandering its economic numbers.

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Re: The Xi Silk Road is here to stay

Post by neverfail » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:14 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:41 am

My general belief is that all societies evolve into democracies .....

Alas Milo (and with all due respects) I feel that your vision might be blinkered by the recent (over the past few centuries) history of the English speaking West.

Chinese history runs in cycles. Chaotic country is unified under an energetic new dynasty; country grows and prospers to a peak of excellence; government then grows too remote from the people while population has grown to the point where it exceeds the capacity of the land to sustain it; problems mount and society and the state gradually crumble from within; sometimes helped along by foreign intervention, a by now thoroughly decayed state collapses into utter chaos to be eventually replaced by a rising new dynasty - sometimes (like the Tang or Ming) of Han invention but sometimes by foreign invaders (like the Mongol Yuan or manchu Qin dynasties).

As I see it the current Communist regime of mainland China is like the latest of a whole (millennials long) string of Imperial dynasties of the past; mature but still in a relatively youthful, energetic, expansionary phase of its cycle. Like all of its predecessors in the same stage of evolution, it has arguably captured and retained to this day their legendary "mandate from heaven": with in hallowed Chinese tradition bestows the exclusive right to govern indefinitely (until it loses the mandate with the subsequent downfall of that particular imperial state).

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