Trump l'oeil!

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Milo
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Trump l'oeil!

Post by Milo » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:31 pm

A thread for discussion of Trump's promises versus what actually happens.

To begin with:

"Mr Trump told ABC News he would recoup costs of the wall from Mexico.
"There will be a payment. It will be in a form, perhaps a complicated form," he said."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38740717

Yes, it will be complicated by Mexico not paying!

Mexico: We will not pay for Trump border wall

"Mexico will not pay for Donald Trump's border wall, the country's president has said in a message to the nation.

Mr Pena Nieto said: "I've said time and again; Mexico won't pay for any wall."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38753826

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Booklady
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Re: Trump l'oeil!

Post by Booklady » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:06 am

The U.N. promise...

Image

BREAKING: Trump Makes MASSIVE Move Against United Nations…
Last December, in the wake of the outrageous Obama betrayal of Israel at the United Nations, and moves by the U.N. to meddle in U.S. issues such as gun rights, Donald Trump promised that things would be different regarding America’s role in the United Nations once he was sworn in.

Just 5 days into his presidency, Trump is putting the U.N. in his sights, preparing executive orders to fundamentally change the U.S. role in the international body that has become nothing but an anti-American club for tyrants and thugs.
The orders could mean that some 40 percent of U.S. funding would be slashed, and that’s just for starters.
He also aims to reverse Obama’s use of U.N. bodies to meddle in U.S. energy and environmental affairs.

The New York Times reported:
The first of the two draft orders, titled “Auditing and Reducing U.S. Funding of International Organizations” and obtained by The New York Times, calls for terminating funding for any United Nations agency or other international body that meets any one of several criteria.

Those criteria include organizations that give full membership to the Palestinian Authority or Palestine Liberation Organization, or support programs that fund abortion or any activity that circumvents sanctions against Iran or North Korea. The draft order also calls for terminating funding for any organization that “is controlled or substantially influenced by any state that sponsors terrorism” or is blamed for the persecution of marginalized groups or any other systematic violation of human rights.

The order calls for then enacting “at least a 40 percent overall decrease” in United States funding toward U.N. organizations.

The second executive order, “Moratorium on New Multilateral Treaties,” calls for a review of all current and pending treaties with more than one other nation. It asks for recommendations on which negotiations or treaties the United States should leave.

The order says this review applies only to multilateral treaties that are not “directly related to national security, extradition or international trade,” but it is unclear what falls outside these restrictions.
Liberals are freaking out…

This is huge. It would be nice to see the U.S. withdraw completely from the UN as it has become little more than a breeding ground for anti-Semitism and hate.

However, further de-funding or withdrawal would require Congressional action, so Trump is doing 100% of what he can, and it’s a big time move.

Trump’s second order on treaties is also crucial, and could apply to Obama’s signature “legacy” deal, the Paris Climate Agreement. As the New York Times reported: “For example, the Paris climate agreement or other environmental treaties deal with trade issues but could potentially fall under this order.”

Trump clearly means business, and is not wasting any time delivering on promises he made to the people who put him in the Oval Office.
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SteveFoerster
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Re: Trump l'oeil!

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:11 am

Milo wrote:A thread for discussion of Trump's promises versus what actually happens.

To begin with:

"Mr Trump told ABC News he would recoup costs of the wall from Mexico.
"There will be a payment. It will be in a form, perhaps a complicated form," he said."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38740717

Yes, it will be complicated by Mexico not paying!

Mexico: We will not pay for Trump border wall

"Mexico will not pay for Donald Trump's border wall, the country's president has said in a message to the nation.

Mr Pena Nieto said: "I've said time and again; Mexico won't pay for any wall."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38753826
I'm not sure I see a realistic way for him to get that money other than a tax on remittances. That would be great for Bitcoin, though.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
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Milo
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Re: Trump l'oeil!

Post by Milo » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:19 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Milo wrote:A thread for discussion of Trump's promises versus what actually happens.

To begin with:

"Mr Trump told ABC News he would recoup costs of the wall from Mexico.
"There will be a payment. It will be in a form, perhaps a complicated form," he said."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38740717

Yes, it will be complicated by Mexico not paying!

Mexico: We will not pay for Trump border wall

"Mexico will not pay for Donald Trump's border wall, the country's president has said in a message to the nation.

Mr Pena Nieto said: "I've said time and again; Mexico won't pay for any wall."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38753826
I'm not sure I see a realistic way for him to get that money other than a tax on remittances. That would be great for Bitcoin, though.
I should think the cost of such a tax would exceed whatever would be taken in.

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Milo
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Re: Trump l'oeil!

Post by Milo » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:23 am


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Booklady
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Re: Trump l'oeil!

Post by Booklady » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:23 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Milo wrote:A thread for discussion of Trump's promises versus what actually happens.

To begin with:

"Mr Trump told ABC News he would recoup costs of the wall from Mexico.
"There will be a payment. It will be in a form, perhaps a complicated form," he said."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38740717

Yes, it will be complicated by Mexico not paying!

Mexico: We will not pay for Trump border wall

"Mexico will not pay for Donald Trump's border wall, the country's president has said in a message to the nation.

Mr Pena Nieto said: "I've said time and again; Mexico won't pay for any wall."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38753826
I'm not sure I see a realistic way for him to get that money other than a tax on remittances. That would be great for Bitcoin, though.
Cassowary and I came to that conclusion on the New York Times thread:
Remittances supersede oil as Mexico's main source of foreign income.

Mexican remittances were $24.8 billion dollars in 2015, alone! :o :shock: Wow

And most of these remittances come from undocumented workers.

Most Mexico-bound Cash Remittances Sent by Undocumented Workers
Survey...Dialogue of remittances to Mexico found that a majority, 67 percent in 2013, were sent by “undocumented” individuals living in the U.S.
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neverfail
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Re: Trump l'oeil!

Post by neverfail » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:46 pm

I think that it is like Trump's damned cheek to expect Mexico to pay for that wall.

It never agreed to foot the bill so therefore there is no contractual obligation for Mexico to do so.

The decision to build is a unilateral one by the US president so logically the US should foot the bill.

The US will get all of the benefit while Mexico will suffer nothing but loss: even without having to contribute a cent.

Does any reader believe that those undocumented "greasers" are in the United States for the fun of it? Because they are entranced by "the land of the free and the home of the brave". :lol: They are there out of desperation: because if they were not there earning menial wages their families back in Mexico would be left destitute.

They are not "immigrants" but economic refugees. Were it not for impossible conditions in their hoem country most of them would probably not be in the United States.

The fact that remittances from these people is now Mexico's main source of foreign exchange is a sad and sorry commentary on the state of Mexico.

Mexico has 1.944 million square kilometres of land to sustain over 123 million people - thats 63 Mexicans per square Klm of ground. The corresponding figures for the US are landmass = 9.14 sq Klm of ground; population just over 324 million which means a little over 35 Yanks per sq. Klm.

Mexico is almost TWICE as crowded as the US and its population per decade I believe has been expanding faster then the US via natural increase. Per square kilometre Mexico would need to be at least TWICE as well endowed with natural resources to sustain it's people as well. My impression is that Mexico is LESS, not better, endowed.

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cassowary
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Re: Trump l'oeil!

Post by cassowary » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:27 pm

That's the Australian thinking - everything depends on natural resources. Japan is even more crowded and has no natural resources. Yet it is richer than Mexico.

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Booklady
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Re: Trump l'oeil!

Post by Booklady » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:48 pm

I am sure, neverfail that there are plenty of poor Asian countries near Australia, like Viet Nam, which would profit from Australia allowing their citizens open border entry to Australia, as economic migrants, so they too can send remittances to their family back home.

How does Australia deal with illegal immigrants? Are the borders open in Australia? Can anyone enter, who comes from a poor nation, illegally without papers?

The truth is that the Australia pm is as zealous of keeping the integrity of Australia's borders, just as Trump is in keeping the integrity of ours. Illegal immigrants are not welcomed in Australia. So, I don't understand your inconsistency in understanding Australia's borders and your country's position on immigration, while you criticize our position? Isn't that hypocritical?

Australia’s Controversial Migration Policy from the Atlantic.
The country’s policy today toward asylum-seekers who arrive by sea is much different: It places them in offshore-detention facilities on two Pacific Island nations, Nauru and Papua New Guinea (PNG), and processes their asylum claims while keeping them there.  Human-rights advocates and refugee organizations say the country’s policy is cruel. It sets no bail, no time limit to their stay, and on average asylum-seekers will spend a year in camps, they say. PNG’s supreme court apparently agreed. This week it ordered the country’s government to close the Manus Island center, calling the facility a violation of the migrants’ personal liberties. The PNG government said it would comply.
But Australia’s Immigration Minister, Peter Dutton, responded by saying Canberra’s “position is very clear, and that is we are not going to accept people who have sought to come to our country illegally by boat, they will not settle permanently in our country.”

[snip]

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull added: “We cannot be misty-eyed about this. We have to be very clear and determined in our national purpose. ... We must have secure borders and we do and we will, and they will remain so, as long as I am the prime minister of this country.” To be sure, it’s not that Australia has an issue with refugees––in fact, it has agreed to resettle 12,000 Syrians, atop the refugees it typically takes through its Humanitarian Programme. It granted 13,800 refugee visas between 2013 and 2014, and 20,000 between 2012 and 2013.
But the arrivals by sea seem to prompt anger. One reason for this could be that migrants and refugees who try to reach Australia by sea are, in fact, coming illegally.

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Sertorio
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Re: Trump l'oeil!

Post by Sertorio » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:22 pm

cassowary wrote:That's the Australian thinking - everything depends on natural resources. Japan is even more crowded and has no natural resources. Yet it is richer than Mexico.
With 123 million people and rising protectionism, Mexico should start thinking about its internal market and import substitution as a means to growth and development.

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